To be fair there is no technical issue for Amazon to "repair".
The BBC took its own poor decision to remove BBC from Tunein on many devices - in particular Alexa - to force people to use the BBC skill. The BBC either prematurely assumed future Amazon changes or simply don't care about its customers - UK license payers.
In the US routines can now call skills - i.e. on an Alarm. It is also requested that skills use multi-speaker - but this isnt a "repair" - it's a new feature that Amazon may or may not add.
Amazon sell devices with a comprehensive radio capability baked in and they contracted with TuneIn to provide that service. TuneIn and the BBC fell out, resulting in TuneIn no longer being able to provide that comprehensive service in the UK. Most companies discovering a supplier can no longer provide a service would either become involved to help resolve the dispute, or find another contractor to provide customers with the service. As far as I'm aware, Amazon has chosen to do nothing.
There may be no technical issue for Amazon to fix, but there is certainly a customer service one which is very broken. However, it appears that the UK is very much treated as a non priority market for Echo products and services. Interestingly, I believe that Google products still provide the functionality that Amazon products have lost. I have 6 devices worth of investment in the Echo infrastructure, but this situation is becoming a deal breaker and if not resolved soon, I'll have no option but to jump ship.
No supplier to Amazon is failing to provide any service and there is no dispute for Amazon to get involved in. The change goes beyond Alexa.
We post here both to inform users affected by the change BBC made, and also so anyone at Amazon could see there was an issue and maybe bump the existing developer request that skills can access the multi-speaker features, and accelerate bringing skills to routines in the UK.
But this isnt a developer forum - its peer to peer help - so theres no guarantee Amazon will jump in to action based an the handful of posts here. The Alxea system is very complex and expanding all the time so we are only a small percentage of world users who have lost functionality.
Its entirely up to us affected UK users to campaign to the BBC
Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more. The BBC are certainly the most culpable, followed by TuneIn. But Amazon could and should be doing more to help restore the service that their customers have lost. They could have mediated between the BBC and TuneIn. They could have enabled a radio service provider willing to work with the BBC to replace or complement TuneIn. They could have worked with the BBC to enable the Sounds skill to provide the lost functionality. But they have done (as far as I can see) nothing to help their impacted customers.
No-one suggested that this was a developer forum, and that only a small percentage of world users have lost capability is somewhat irrelevant. Campaigning to the BBC will do nothing to convince Amazon to allow the BBC access to the features needed. The BBC caused this issue but Amazon can and should do more to fix it.
I bought my Echo specifically to pick up BBC stations that I could not get on my radio due to living in a poor signal area. I have no technical skills to speak of. Everything was fine at the beginning but I am now unable to listen to radio 4 extra. I'm feeling that I have thrown my money down the toilet!
I was just about to buy a further echo but no point now - really fed up!!!!!!!!!
I bought my Echo specifically to pick up BBC stations that I could not get on my radio due to living in a poor signal area. I have no technical skills to speak of. Everything was fine at the beginning but I am now unable to listen to radio 4 extra. I'm feeling that I have thrown my money down the toilet!
I was just about to buy a further echo but no point now - really fed up!!!!!!!!!
Hi Wizzles, I'm sorry that you have this problem. Did you enable the BBC skill on your device?
As Doreen says, everyone should still be able to listen to BBC radio channels by enabling the BBC Sounds skill. (Prior to the recent downgrading of Alexa services in the UK, BBC radio was available via the built in TuneIn capability, but that's no longer the case). Sadly, the BBC and Amazon haven't got their acts together to find a way of restoring the capability to set alarms using BBC radio or to listen to BBC radio via multiroom, negating two of the main reasons I had for purchasing the six Echo devices in our home.
The BBC have managed to find a way to withdraw from individual Tunein services - in principle any UK device that can take the BBC app instead. So its off Alexa but not on Sonos via the Sonos app and possibly still OK on music devices like Linn and Naim
But Alexa only supports multi-speaker (stereo or playback casted to Sonos etc) using Tunein so the effect was greater than the BBC might have assumed. Also Heos seems to have been broken too.
For Google the BBC dont explicitly list it as an affected device and their page says "And, if you have a Google Home device, you can listen to BBC stations using either Chromecast or your voice."
When you are accessing BBC's website on your PC.. are you your PC manufacturer's customer, your ISP's broadband customer, a Microsoft Windows customer, the browser's perhaps Firefox's customer or BBC's customer?
Of course Peter. All of the above. But if one of those companies sold me a product or service on the basis of a capability which later failed to work, I'd expect a customer focused business to do whatever it could to resolve the issue.
Unfortunately, nobody has responded well to the customer here. BBC just points the finger at Amazon and TuneIn, Amazon and TuneIn both say it's a BBC decision.
I can see all sides, BBC wants to break the TuneIn/default Amazon music services monopoly, Amazon doesn't want to release the full set of functionality to skills (for whatever reason), TuneIn doesn't want to provide more analytics than they think appropriate.
Amazon sold you an Echo. The Alexa voiced assistant service is free,.. and the skills provided by 3rd parties are free. The Amazon Echo sales pages make no mention of the BBC.
The native TuneIn skill used to make the BBC radio stream available in the past.
Now the BBC make the audio streams available directly from the BBC skill. "Alexa, ask the BBC to play Radio4."
The Amazon Echo and the Alexa service is simply the platform for delivery of audio streams
I would suggest that if the BBC skill developed and maintained by the BBC doesn't meet your needs you should address that in discussions with the BBC.
I would suggest that if the BBC skill developed and maintained by the BBC doesn't meet your needs you should address that in discussions with the BBC.
But the problem is Amazon does not provide the BBC with access to any of this functionality - speaker groups (multiroom, stereo, subwoofer), routines etc. via skills. This is an Amazon functionality limitation. Agreed though the BBC created this situation by dropping the radio streams from TuneIn - IMO to raise the visibility of this issue and force change from Amazon.
The Amazon Echo sales pages make no mention of the BBC.
Hmmm. The BBC logo does appear under the blurb that describes 'with compatible Echo devices in different rooms, you can fill your whole home with music.' I can I guess, just every room is out of sync 🤦🏻♂️
Amazon sells the Echo with an integrated radio capability provided by their selected radio integration partner, TuneIn. It advertises that capability as being multi-room capable. Whilst not specifically mentioning the BBC, it's reasonable in the UK to expect a device offering a comprehensive intergrated radio service to cover the single largest radio service provider. I totally accept that Amazon are under no legal obligation to resolve this issue, but from a customer service perspective, I'd suggest it was in their interests to do so, particularly when it is their chosen integration partner whose dispute with the BBC has caused the issue.
it is not some brave crusade to break some monopoly. The BBC might imagine it is still the global force it once was, but all it's done is to annoy a large number of UK licence fee payers across a number of platforms - not just Alexa. if the BBC had confidence in its Skill and behaved like a normal commercial organisation it would have allowed its Skill to co-exist with the chosen method Alexa uses to access radio - which is via Tunein.
Amazon wont be forced to make platform changes based on a UK only change by one organisation trying to force people to use its own Skill. If your device no longer works as you need it to then you'd be better pursuing a refund - this forum is really only for users to pass tips on to other users not to influence change.
Radio is free. You do not need a licence. The BBC and Amazon have upset a great number of people who receive a free service.
what Amazon do care about is new sales. You can’t listen to BBC radio out of the box. Along with a lack of stereo et al Social media that fact. If Amazon lose sales, especially given the raft of new products, then it will focus their mind on to doing something. Money talks. And it’s Christmas.
e.g. That you can’t listen in stereo is very firmly a Amazon problem.
the BBC will not move as it has been their intention to move to BBC Sounds (ELEVEN months ago when it appeared) to provide a greatly expanded service to, if you like, “licence fee payers” and others thereby giving much greater value to “licence fee payers”.iPlayer Radio will disappear in due course. Radioplayer is used as the global delivery system. I strongly suspect that the beeb will be pushing BBC Sounds as a subscription service for overseas, esp the USA.
No company could survive giving everything away. Shareholders want something. You have to pay staff, rent etc. As well as pay to use BBC etc.
There is no point having a speaker that does not have access to sound.
There did, used to be, a Radio receiver licence. This was then included in the cost of the TV licence.
Businesses do have to pay for radio.
If we all shifted to Google (because BBC was available there), Amazon would soon fix the problem.
It is free for you to use. Ergo it is free.
it is free for a worldwide audience. Ergo it is free.
where the money comes from to provide the service is irrelevant to the user - is it licence fee, government subsidy, programmes sales, royalties, sponsorship etc
as I have oft repeated. Report the lack of Amazon functionality on social media. Go for it. Why? Because baked in audio streams already provide the data collection that the BBC want. That Amazon must share.
amazon couldn’t give a hoot about money it already has from customers but it does care about new sales especially with the raft of new devices launched.
A very silly workaround I came up with to wake up to BBC radio following the BBC/Alexa/Tunein issue documented elsewhere...
Open Alexa app on smartphone or tablet
Create routine to run at wake up time
Add action Say “Alexa play BBC radio 4”
From this device
Place phone/tablet in voice range of second Alexa device EG Amazon Dot or speaker.
Hints...
You need BBC skill on app
Make sure first device isn’t set to be in silent mode at desired mode.
Make sure partner has above routine on their device if you are not in the house.
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Amazon StaffHi Spile, welcome to our Digital and Device Forum!
Thank you for the workaround that works for you, maybe it will work for some others from our Forum community as well.
Hope to see you again soon in our Forum!
It would be better it, you know, Amazon fixed these issues. Repaired them. Resolved the technical issues.
Just a thought.
To be fair there is no technical issue for Amazon to "repair".
The BBC took its own poor decision to remove BBC from Tunein on many devices - in particular Alexa - to force people to use the BBC skill. The BBC either prematurely assumed future Amazon changes or simply don't care about its customers - UK license payers.
In the US routines can now call skills - i.e. on an Alarm. It is also requested that skills use multi-speaker - but this isnt a "repair" - it's a new feature that Amazon may or may not add.
Amazon sell devices with a comprehensive radio capability baked in and they contracted with TuneIn to provide that service. TuneIn and the BBC fell out, resulting in TuneIn no longer being able to provide that comprehensive service in the UK. Most companies discovering a supplier can no longer provide a service would either become involved to help resolve the dispute, or find another contractor to provide customers with the service. As far as I'm aware, Amazon has chosen to do nothing.
There may be no technical issue for Amazon to fix, but there is certainly a customer service one which is very broken. However, it appears that the UK is very much treated as a non priority market for Echo products and services. Interestingly, I believe that Google products still provide the functionality that Amazon products have lost. I have 6 devices worth of investment in the Echo infrastructure, but this situation is becoming a deal breaker and if not resolved soon, I'll have no option but to jump ship.
No supplier to Amazon is failing to provide any service and there is no dispute for Amazon to get involved in. The change goes beyond Alexa.
We post here both to inform users affected by the change BBC made, and also so anyone at Amazon could see there was an issue and maybe bump the existing developer request that skills can access the multi-speaker features, and accelerate bringing skills to routines in the UK.
But this isnt a developer forum - its peer to peer help - so theres no guarantee Amazon will jump in to action based an the handful of posts here. The Alxea system is very complex and expanding all the time so we are only a small percentage of world users who have lost functionality.
Its entirely up to us affected UK users to campaign to the BBC
Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more. The BBC are certainly the most culpable, followed by TuneIn. But Amazon could and should be doing more to help restore the service that their customers have lost. They could have mediated between the BBC and TuneIn. They could have enabled a radio service provider willing to work with the BBC to replace or complement TuneIn. They could have worked with the BBC to enable the Sounds skill to provide the lost functionality. But they have done (as far as I can see) nothing to help their impacted customers.
No-one suggested that this was a developer forum, and that only a small percentage of world users have lost capability is somewhat irrelevant. Campaigning to the BBC will do nothing to convince Amazon to allow the BBC access to the features needed. The BBC caused this issue but Amazon can and should do more to fix it.
I bought my Echo specifically to pick up BBC stations that I could not get on my radio due to living in a poor signal area. I have no technical skills to speak of. Everything was fine at the beginning but I am now unable to listen to radio 4 extra. I'm feeling that I have thrown my money down the toilet!
I was just about to buy a further echo but no point now - really fed up!!!!!!!!!
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Amazon StaffHi Wizzles, I'm sorry that you have this problem. Did you enable the BBC skill on your device?
Thank you!
As Doreen says, everyone should still be able to listen to BBC radio channels by enabling the BBC Sounds skill. (Prior to the recent downgrading of Alexa services in the UK, BBC radio was available via the built in TuneIn capability, but that's no longer the case). Sadly, the BBC and Amazon haven't got their acts together to find a way of restoring the capability to set alarms using BBC radio or to listen to BBC radio via multiroom, negating two of the main reasons I had for purchasing the six Echo devices in our home.
I am not too concerned about the lack of a skill like tunein.
What really
annoys me is not being able to listen to BBC in stereo.I consider this to be an Amazon problem.
I assume you have tried all the "turn off then on again", "reset your Echo", stuff.
Like a lot of people, I was sitting back hoping common sense would prevail.
Clearly not.
I have six speakers and a sub that I use to play mostly radio 2 around the house.
This now does not work.
I have been unable to find any other Apps that work.
To say I'm fed up with this is a massive understatement.
My daughter was waiting until Black Friday to buy a set of Echos.
I have now advised her to go for Google Home.
I Brought My speakers because of Multi groups, as far as I'm concerned it's now broken.
Amazon Pull your finger out.
I don't Watch BBC television as I have Netflix and Prime, I am seriously considering not renewing my TV license.
In what way is Google different?
I assume you have tried all the "turn off then on again", "reset your Echo", stuff.
I wondered this. If BBC Radio is off TuneIn, aren't the Google devices similarly impacted?
The BBC have managed to find a way to withdraw from individual Tunein services - in principle any UK device that can take the BBC app instead. So its off Alexa but not on Sonos via the Sonos app and possibly still OK on music devices like Linn and Naim
But Alexa only supports multi-speaker (stereo or playback casted to Sonos etc) using Tunein so the effect was greater than the BBC might have assumed. Also Heos seems to have been broken too.
For Google the BBC dont explicitly list it as an affected device and their page says "And, if you have a Google Home device, you can listen to BBC stations using either Chromecast or your voice."
Regardless of who caused the issue or who is at fault, it is Amazon's problem to fix, as it is their devices and their customers who are impacted.
Fifer, can I ask you a question...
When you are accessing BBC's website on your PC.. are you your PC manufacturer's customer, your ISP's broadband customer, a Microsoft Windows customer, the browser's perhaps Firefox's customer or BBC's customer?
Of course Peter. All of the above. But if one of those companies sold me a product or service on the basis of a capability which later failed to work, I'd expect a customer focused business to do whatever it could to resolve the issue.
Unfortunately, nobody has responded well to the customer here. BBC just points the finger at Amazon and TuneIn, Amazon and TuneIn both say it's a BBC decision.
I can see all sides, BBC wants to break the TuneIn/default Amazon music services monopoly, Amazon doesn't want to release the full set of functionality to skills (for whatever reason), TuneIn doesn't want to provide more analytics than they think appropriate.
Fifer,
Amazon sold you an Echo. The Alexa voiced assistant service is free,.. and the skills provided by 3rd parties are free. The Amazon Echo sales pages make no mention of the BBC.
The native TuneIn skill used to make the BBC radio stream available in the past.
Now the BBC make the audio streams available directly from the BBC skill. "Alexa, ask the BBC to play Radio4."
The Amazon Echo and the Alexa service is simply the platform for delivery of audio streams
I would suggest that if the BBC skill developed and maintained by the BBC doesn't meet your needs you should address that in discussions with the BBC.
But the problem is Amazon does not provide the BBC with access to any of this functionality - speaker groups (multiroom, stereo, subwoofer), routines etc. via skills. This is an Amazon functionality limitation. Agreed though the BBC created this situation by dropping the radio streams from TuneIn - IMO to raise the visibility of this issue and force change from Amazon.
Hmmm. The BBC logo does appear under the blurb that describes 'with compatible Echo devices in different rooms, you can fill your whole home with music.' I can I guess, just every room is out of sync 🤦🏻♂️
Amazon sells the Echo with an integrated radio capability provided by their selected radio integration partner, TuneIn. It advertises that capability as being multi-room capable. Whilst not specifically mentioning the BBC, it's reasonable in the UK to expect a device offering a comprehensive intergrated radio service to cover the single largest radio service provider. I totally accept that Amazon are under no legal obligation to resolve this issue, but from a customer service perspective, I'd suggest it was in their interests to do so, particularly when it is their chosen integration partner whose dispute with the BBC has caused the issue.
We've also seen a very small number of posters on https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/aboutthebbc/entries/ba37d6b5-59fd-470d-9da2-dec1b45b8bd5 trying to justify the BBC change.
it is not some brave crusade to break some monopoly. The BBC might imagine it is still the global force it once was, but all it's done is to annoy a large number of UK licence fee payers across a number of platforms - not just Alexa. if the BBC had confidence in its Skill and behaved like a normal commercial organisation it would have allowed its Skill to co-exist with the chosen method Alexa uses to access radio - which is via Tunein.
Amazon wont be forced to make platform changes based on a UK only change by one organisation trying to force people to use its own Skill. If your device no longer works as you need it to then you'd be better pursuing a refund - this forum is really only for users to pass tips on to other users not to influence change.
Radio is free. You do not need a licence. The BBC and Amazon have upset a great number of people who receive a free service.
what Amazon do care about is new sales. You can’t listen to BBC radio out of the box. Along with a lack of stereo et al Social media that fact. If Amazon lose sales, especially given the raft of new products, then it will focus their mind on to doing something. Money talks. And it’s Christmas.
e.g. That you can’t listen in stereo is very firmly a Amazon problem.
the BBC will not move as it has been their intention to move to BBC Sounds (ELEVEN months ago when it appeared) to provide a greatly expanded service to, if you like, “licence fee payers” and others thereby giving much greater value to “licence fee payers”.iPlayer Radio will disappear in due course. Radioplayer is used as the global delivery system. I strongly suspect that the beeb will be pushing BBC Sounds as a subscription service for overseas, esp the USA.
Nothing is "Free".
There is a cost to everything.
No company could survive giving everything away. Shareholders want something. You have to pay staff, rent etc. As well as pay to use BBC etc.
There is no point having a speaker that does not have access to sound.
There did, used to be, a Radio receiver licence. This was then included in the cost of the TV licence.
Businesses do have to pay for radio.
If we all shifted to Google (because BBC was available there), Amazon would soon fix the problem.
I assume you have tried all the "turn off then on again", "reset your Echo", stuff.
this works on the Google Assistant, including playing the ay BBC station in-sync across multiple devices
It is free for you to use. Ergo it is free.
it is free for a worldwide audience. Ergo it is free.
where the money comes from to provide the service is irrelevant to the user - is it licence fee, government subsidy, programmes sales, royalties, sponsorship etc
as I have oft repeated. Report the lack of Amazon functionality on social media. Go for it. Why? Because baked in audio streams already provide the data collection that the BBC want. That Amazon must share.
amazon couldn’t give a hoot about money it already has from customers but it does care about new sales especially with the raft of new devices launched.